AMP #130 – Tero Isokauppila on Entrepreneurs, Shrooms & The REAL Christmas Story

AMP #130 – Tero Isokauppila on Entrepreneurs, Shrooms & The REAL Christmas Story

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00:00
what’s up my friend how you doing good
00:01
and enjoying Austin it’s so cool now
00:03
here it was last time visited it was so
00:05
so so hot and stormy yeah we get seasons
00:08
yeah I love it
00:09
anyway you don’t yeah it’s not like
00:11
being in Aspen
00:12
you know but yeah we get some yeah I
00:15
grew up in Finland so I had all of the
00:18
seasons but now just like cold and
00:21
darker shit and that sunny and bright
00:22
and everybody’s happy as fuck yeah
00:24
Touche yeah pretty much yeah
00:26
24 hours of sunlight or no sunlight that
00:29
was the craziest thing when I was in
00:30
gota burg it’s just I guess probably
00:32
similar does yeah a little further up a
00:35
little bit further but yeah we go to the
00:37
bar and be light at like 11:00 and then
00:40
we get out at 3:00 in darkness we just
00:43
miss it entirely yeah this the dawn yeah
00:46
and the winter is the OP is it see the
00:48
Sun creeping up a little bit yeah then
00:50
he goes down again they have weird
00:51
things with alcohol there do they have
00:53
weird things with alcohol in Finland
00:54
like yeah dude it’s like that’s actually
00:55
relevant to all the mushroom stuff as
00:57
well as depression is pretty it’s a real
01:00
thing when you have that seasonal
01:01
depression because of the darkness you
01:03
get no vitamin D so a lot of the
01:05
indigenous people use mushrooms to get
01:07
vitamin D but also and is that d2 or d3
01:09
well that would be – yeah um so but it’s
01:13
still like if you have known vitamin D
01:14
even if the absorption is now ideal it’s
01:16
still one of the sources how would you
01:18
get vitamin D during the winter and then
01:19
obviously and also different types of
01:22
mushrooms scary gun that was used in our
01:28
one of our biggest holiday so we have
01:29
two big holidays Christmas Christmas or
01:32
it was one day kind of different with
01:34
the Gregorian and calendar and the
01:37
Julian calendar so there was like one
01:39
day difference almost to the current but
01:40
yes so that was like one when there was
01:43
no light at all and then summers
01:46
Midsummer’s the other time when we do
01:47
magic and the two times when we do magic
01:51
is you know when it’s that the days the
01:54
longest n days the shortest that makes
01:56
sense no so
01:57
are you pretty well-versed on this
01:59
Amanita Christmas Santa Claus I’m solid
02:02
alright why don’t you just drop that on
02:05
us for anybody who hasn’t heard it’s one
02:06
of Joe Rogan’s favorite things to talk
02:07
about
02:08
yeah so you might have heard it already
02:09
but let’s hear it from the mushroom man
02:11
himself so list
02:12
the ending is that Santa sold shrooms so
02:16
basically so how we think of Christmas
02:18
is mostly brought to the US by the Dutch
02:21
Dutch stole it from the Germans you know
02:23
st. Nicholas the Germans took it from
02:25
the Russians Russians took it from this
02:26
indigenous group of people called Sami
02:28
si mi that in the northern Norway Sweden
02:32
Finland and kind of the northwestern
02:34
part of Russia they live and that’s by
02:36
the way the area where reindeers are
02:37
domesticated reindeers don’t live in
02:39
North Pole okay so this is Arctic Circle
02:41
super high up north and they would have
02:43
these indigenous group of people and
02:45
them and these ordinal Santa Claus was
02:48
shamans basically that would heal common
02:50
ailments you know you had a issue with
02:52
your leg or you had a flu like the plant
02:54
doctors all over them all over the place
02:56
probably knows at least the Siberian hut
02:59
shamans same thing different and they
03:02
say Santa Claus lived forever because
03:04
there were so many of them and they will
03:05
be generation after generation and and
03:07
and the whole color of red came later
03:09
they will not weigh it right they went
03:10
blue there’s a little bit of red in
03:12
their outfits but mostly blue and they
03:14
would trial don’t fucking rock in a blue
03:16
Santa Claus I’m going with the throwback
03:17
jersey this Christmas anybody want to
03:19
get authentic as fuck go throwback blue
03:22
Santa Claus and be like bitch know your
03:24
history yeah yeah totally
03:25
and they would go from village to
03:27
village with reindeers that was one of
03:28
the big domesticated animals you know
03:30
there’s you know seven to nine large
03:32
domesticating mammals and they have one
03:34
with a brighter nose yeah exactly
03:36
well that gets to later in the story
03:38
okay so so the shamans or the Santa
03:42
Clauses would go around and pick wild
03:45
herbs and mushrooms and in
03:46
september/october they would go into the
03:48
spruce tree which is the Christmas tree
03:50
so if you go to let’s say New York and
03:52
you see this big Christmas tree and it’s
03:54
it’s a it’s a Norwegian proof spruce or
03:57
something like that and underneath that
03:58
grows I’m gonna eat I’m a scary Oh fly
04:00
agaric is which is the red mushroom on
04:02
your iPhone I’ll shorten my pocket burn
04:06
here absolutely so it is the red
04:08
mushrooms with the white dots the whole
04:10
Amanita muscaria family is kind of toxic
04:12
some of them are even lethal but this
04:15
one is poisonous but not lethal you’re
04:17
not going to die from it and it has
04:18
special powers that we’ll get into later
04:20
anyway so you pick it up under the
04:22
Christmas tree so that’s why a lot of
04:24
countries the gift
04:26
the presents are put under the tree or
04:29
then because you serve it in you know
04:31
end of December you have to dry it so
04:34
that’s why I might be on a sock on top
04:35
of a oh man everything makes sense
04:38
he’s gonna fucking socks the side goes
04:41
so deep so anything went so deep yeah
04:44
anyway so you dry it and and there’s
04:46
Sami people
04:47
so this spruces at one of the holy trees
04:49
you know it’s like avatar you know the
04:51
Navi people would have this holy tree
04:53
it’s one of the holy treats and provides
04:55
these gifts yeah yeah it’s a special
04:57
tree and then the star on top of the
05:00
Christmas tree is is the Polaris the
05:03
pride a star in the constellation you
05:04
would use it to navigate it’s a GPS
05:06
basically and we met you were
05:08
sandbagging us when I said how good are
05:10
you on this fucking Christmas really
05:14
good you got this one now we get to this
05:16
stuff that a lot of people don’t know
05:17
like for the crew that one so the red
05:20
balls in your Christmas tree wore the
05:21
Amanita muscaria so what the shaman do
05:24
is called the butterfly loop so you
05:25
would have a tree you have to dry it and
05:28
if you don’t have fire you would just
05:30
put it the the mushrooms on the tree and
05:33
let the Sun dry that’s how the vitamin D
05:34
is created mushrooms are similar to
05:37
animals in the way that they cannot
05:38
produce their own food they need
05:40
external food sources but they can also
05:42
create things through the skin same way
05:45
as we assimilate vitamin D from the Sun
05:47
mushrooms going to assimilate why don’t
05:48
we need from the Sun so you sun-dried so
05:50
we take the biggest tree the biggest
05:52
proves that has a lot of sunlight and
05:53
you start booting hominid does that you
05:55
find in the Christmas tree branches and
05:57
you start making butterfly loops around
05:59
it and you start bringing you take a
06:01
loop come back to the main tree take a
06:03
loop come back to tree so eventually
06:05
there’s a tree somewhere with hundred
06:07
ohm Anita’s hanging from the Christmas
06:09
tree branches so even if you go back to
06:11
German stories you still see kids
06:13
holding damn Anita so that a lot of
06:16
these traditions either changed or
06:18
gotten left over along the way as it
06:20
went through Europe and eventually the
06:22
US but if you go back to German photos
06:24
you see little kids with dominators yeah
06:26
so anyway this is this is Sam Santa
06:30
drying out the shamans drying out these
06:32
mushrooms and then this other main
06:34
holiday of this winter equinox you know
06:36
comes and and there’s a lot of snow
06:38
you’re so far north
06:40
and you would travel with the reindeers
06:42
and it would get to that village and
06:44
they would have this huge teepee almost
06:46
like a yurt means teepee it’s called
06:48
Kota KO ta and it has a hole on the top
06:51
because you need fire it’s freakin cold
06:53
so you need fire inside and and if
06:58
there’s a lot of snow during the night
06:59
you can’t enter the Kota has like a
07:01
really low entrance to kind of crawl in
07:04
are you about to tell me that come
07:05
through the German they come through the
07:08
so and then you would do a ceremony we
07:12
don’t really know they have this drum
07:13
that has afterlife they make a little
07:15
round drum and it’s you draw in in like
07:18
that underworld which is death which is
07:21
obviously common thing with psychedelics
07:22
is like handle how to handle death and
07:24
how’d it come with the grips of dying
07:27
and getting constable with that one of
07:29
the master fears yeah grandpa well and I
07:31
think that’s one of the themes around
07:32
psychedelics generally just around death
07:34
and life and death and that seemingly
07:36
binary you know thing but it’s really
07:40
not so then and they would have this
07:43
ceremony and they would have and they
07:44
would probably see reindeers flying and
07:46
so we gotta get into that so and did
07:49
they also deliver I heard that they
07:50
delivered sometimes the hot shamans
07:52
would deliver gifts to the to kids as
07:54
well yeah so yeah so this was
07:56
origionally so the psychedelic mushroom
07:58
of Amanita muscaria steak only the first
08:00
Christmas present
08:01
so Santa Soul troops is not fully
08:04
correct because he was a gift yeah so
08:06
but that was the original Christmas gift
08:07
yeah and then and they would obviously
08:09
have other gifts as well you know it’s
08:11
like celebration it was a it was a holy
08:13
time but the fascinating part is
08:15
obviously the fact of Amanita being
08:17
slightly poisonous and now we’re gonna
08:19
enter a pretty crazy part about some of
08:21
these shamanistic traditions that like
08:23
not often are discussed in today’s world
08:25
of ayahuasca being popular and whatnot
08:28
is you’re in a therapy are you familiar
08:30
with have you heard him so unfortunately
08:32
Amanita is is poisonous not lethal but
08:34
it’s gonna make you sick so depending on
08:36
the tribe the strongest male or the
08:39
weakest woman would be sacrificed and
08:41
they would eat it and get fever and get
08:42
sick wait wait wait why would it be the
08:45
strongest male or the weakest woman well
08:47
as strong as male could take it the best
08:49
yeah cuz it’s too strong so you can
08:51
handle being sick a weakest woman was
08:53
the most
08:56
so but then we get sick everybody else
08:59
would drink the pee so actually that my
09:01
name Oh scary the psychedelic compounds
09:03
get stronger it’s almost like an
09:06
extraction like you do that some herb
09:08
distilled but it also removes the
09:10
toxicity of it so everybody drinking the
09:12
urine would not get sick and they would
09:14
get extreme to the heinie filters out
09:15
the toxicity yeah now as far as the
09:17
mechanism of action emanate is not a
09:18
classic psychedelic no GABA agonist I
09:21
have that correct which is similar to
09:23
what alcohol does but it you know or GHB
09:26
if you’re in other recreational drugs
09:28
but it has a you know a slightly
09:31
different flavor because there is a
09:33
psychedelic component now I haven’t
09:34
experienced it just because I haven’t
09:36
found the right people and it figured
09:38
out how to dry it right and it’s a
09:40
process I would do it like if you were
09:42
like hey man yeah come over to my crib
09:44
you can drink my pee I’d be like all
09:46
right I’m in but and that’s just not a
09:48
sign of like how healthy I think you are
09:50
I may be totally wrong yeah maybe just
09:52
fuckin eatin packaged macaroni and
09:54
cheese I’ve never eaten with you but uh
09:56
but yeah I would do that but I haven’t
09:58
gone through the process however some of
10:00
my buddies have and I’ve gotten text
10:02
from them and it was like it wasn’t like
10:04
psychedelics generally people are very
10:06
lucid and what do they say I just take a
10:08
seat and listen and I’ll take notes
10:09
because they’re tapped into something
10:11
these guys were talking about like
10:13
Battletoads and like they were just not
10:17
on the most like no I spiritually it’s a
10:21
dark one yeah like obviously everybody
10:22
will have their own experience and and
10:24
but it isn’t it’s not the one that you
10:26
start out with right it’s not it’s not
10:29
the one on one so you’ve experienced
10:31
this yes yeah so walk me through like
10:33
what how would you describe it like how
10:36
would you compare an Amanita experience
10:38
to anything else well first of all you
10:40
can have it on a micro dose so it’s not
10:42
it’s not impossible so you can have it
10:44
if it’s dried really well you’re not
10:46
gonna get toxicity I’m not as big into
10:49
like micro dosing and that kind of stuff
10:51
but I have a few friends who actively
10:53
microdose UNAM anita’s and he does make
10:56
like flavor stronger and so it’s like
10:58
like you said it’s a turcica flavor on
11:00
the experience how it says is obviously
11:06
everybody will have their own experience
11:07
but still
11:07
I’ve been so like you don’t never know
11:09
whatever you’re processing but I would
11:10
say psilocybin is is a happier
11:12
connecting with the universe you know
11:15
being one is the theme of like being
11:18
connected
11:19
yeah unity to all things yes the earth
11:21
so let me just give this I don’t think
11:23
it’s a surprise that these Sami people
11:25
will talk about underworld and death and
11:27
demons right so I think that’s probably
11:30
kind of a coup that while you might see
11:33
yeah you know it’s an interesting thing
11:35
because you think about like the
11:37
lifecycle of an in general like for
11:40
alcohol for example like the alcohol is
11:42
created in the death cycle yep and so it
11:45
can tend to create some more some darker
11:48
impulses yes I say dark I mean just on
11:49
that other side rather than these kind
11:51
of light life-affirming it’s more in the
11:54
you know violence and yet more
11:56
aggression and some of that other the
11:57
dark side that alcohol can tend to bring
11:59
out and I describe I’m Aneta yeah and
12:02
then so on the gaba side of this as well
12:04
and even you know GHB same thing
12:07
anything acts on that mechanism seems to
12:08
steer people that direction where the
12:11
serotonin mechanism seems yes to your
12:13
people towards that kind of hard opening
12:15
yeah lighter man and you know you need
12:16
both but I wouldn’t I wouldn’t probably
12:19
want to start there and I would be
12:20
extra-careful way you do because it can
12:21
be more scary especially if you’re not
12:23
experienced in navigating those worlds
12:26
where the demons come like if you’re
12:27
still if you’re still have any fear
12:28
associated with that yeah fear will
12:30
trigger this kind of mushroom is not
12:32
illegal so yeah yeah you can order this
12:34
mushroom I think I worded mine on I
12:36
don’t know somewhere like I am shaman
12:38
God there’s something like that
12:40
oh sure bouncing bear botanicals or to
12:42
plays they used to shop at but I think
12:45
one of them comes out of business now
12:46
but anyways yeah it’s it’s interesting
12:49
that it would be a you know that
12:51
different experience that kind of
12:52
correlates with just a different life
12:54
cycle different neurotransmitter yeah
12:57
but certainly something that I’d be
12:58
interested in experimenting with because
13:00
you know I have plenty of my share of
13:01
seeing the dark side and there’s a
13:04
beauty in that as well especially if it
13:05
doesn’t trigger the fear yeah like if
13:07
you see it and you get terrified then
13:09
you’re gonna have a horrible trip and
13:10
you also have ten is that this was
13:11
usually taken at the darkest time of the
13:14
year it’s almost 24 hours of darkness
13:16
but you see the stars and you’re
13:18
connected and there’s like snow it’s
13:19
like it’s it is like down the world
13:22
the death of the year and then January
13:24
starts the new year slowly the birth and
13:26
then midsummer is like the peak and just
13:29
that circle of land those pagan rituals
13:31
were dope yeah and it’s just a shame
13:32
that our our rituals are so empty and
13:35
vapid like we took this very meaningful
13:37
thing with a potent psychedelic mushroom
13:39
and a huge tradition around it
13:42
celebrating seasonality time of year
13:44
themes dealing with your death the
13:46
underworld and we just fucking
13:47
hallmarked it and now it’s just nonsense
13:50
it’s a completely meaningless holiday
13:52
and then not only hallmarked it but then
13:54
like religious sized it yeah you know
13:57
what how do you say that religious sighs
13:59
that I’m English is not my first or
14:02
second language no whatever
14:04
like we just they do not like co-op
14:06
maybe you’ve looked into it but it was
14:09
like seems like you know San Pedro
14:12
appeared like you have experience with
14:13
that so he’s like they gave you like
14:15
okay we’re not gonna ban you from this
14:17
substance you love this substance so
14:18
much but want you to adapt Christianity
14:20
or whatever it may be so you can have it
14:22
let’s just change the name and do this
14:24
and that and then eventually the the
14:26
sacrament kids yeah weaned out of it and
14:29
Emily the same with every single holiday
14:32
from fucking Halloween to you know
14:35
Easter to all of the different all of
14:37
the different holidays that correlate
14:39
correlated with something ultimately
14:41
that began is meaningful but we even do
14:43
that with their own ceremonies like
14:44
wedding ceremonies you know there’s like
14:46
wedding there’s like wedding factories
14:48
here in Texas where like let me just
14:50
show up and everything is just
14:52
choreograph queue down to the thing it’s
14:55
like a standard script here’s where the
14:56
people sit here’s the buffet menu items
14:58
yeah here’s how here’s the jokes that
14:59
we’re gonna make here’s the time that
15:01
you cut the cake here’s where you have
15:02
your fake cake fight here’s where you
15:04
have the photo of the fake cake fight
15:05
here’s where you have a daddy-daughter
15:06
dance here’s some five most popular
15:08
songs blah blah blah you could literally
15:09
go through their multiple choice it and
15:11
fucking you’re out of there in 30
15:13
minutes
15:13
peace bitches I’m married you know and
15:16
it’s like I’ve been to those oh yeah
15:18
I’ve been to those you know I just look
15:21
at him I just get so disappointed my
15:23
where’s the fucking meat of this even
15:25
even the first time I came to the u.s. I
15:27
would tour all the like the national
15:28
parks just fascinating the drive through
15:30
national park you go to Yellowstone
15:33
everything you’re not leaving the car
15:34
you’re just driving through
15:36
you’re just driving through its its
15:39
experience people like these kind of
15:41
like really shorter shorter loop stuff
15:44
but the real value comes from when you
15:46
vary from the path when you carve out
15:48
the time to drink someone’s urine and
15:50
visit the world not everything is bullet
15:52
sizable the other phrase that like is uh
15:55
going going to the church or whatever
15:58
makes you as much as a Christian as
16:01
going the garage makes you a mechanic so
16:04
just the act of going somewhere and
16:06
being in a place doesn’t make you that
16:09
like you have to live it and be it yeah
16:11
there’s a joke amongst some like true
16:14
Christians who follow like the christian
16:16
mystic tradition they’ll have the common
16:18
saying the hardest place to find a
16:20
Christian is in the church Wow
16:21
you know because the religiosity and the
16:24
judgment and some of the things that
16:25
develop around a structure like that
16:27
what lose the true idea of you know
16:30
Yeshua’s teachings which is God is
16:32
within us all we are all the same we’re
16:34
all st. Assassin no I pronounce that
16:39
correctly SEC SEC yeah and finish it’s
16:42
something totally different not
16:44
surprised but uh they said that when he
16:46
learned more about faith and his own
16:48
faith he got quiet the older he got in
16:52
the Moldovan light unless he talked
16:53
about it yeah it was his personal
16:55
journey within and he was not a journey
16:56
to that’s that’s it it’s again it’s just
16:59
talking about the direct experience
17:00
versus the the learned experience you
17:04
know something yeah someone else has
17:05
told you or something that la loses the
17:07
meaning like for any kind of deep
17:08
spiritual process you need to feel it
17:11
like someone can tell you about it and
17:13
it’s okay that’s cool you know but then
17:15
when you feel it and experience it
17:16
yourself it goes from this idea to a
17:18
knowing and then once it’s a knowing
17:20
then it can start to actually guide your
17:22
life yeah you know but you have to feel
17:24
and touch it and I think that’s what’s
17:26
missing from all of our holidays all of
17:27
our rituals all of our ceremonies and
17:29
that’s I think why some of these things
17:31
are really coming back like you said
17:33
ayahuasca and I wouldn’t be surprised if
17:35
there starts to be some more these other
17:37
kind of pagan rituals so do you think
17:39
that now that that gets more popular
17:40
someone makes it a process same way as
17:43
what kind of wedding Pro the UDV I mean
17:47
not I don’t haven’t sat with them and I
17:48
know a lot of people get a lot of
17:49
you out of that it’s still ayahuasca
17:51
served but it is a very ritualized
17:54
process where you drink the tea in a
17:56
very specific amount of very specific
17:58
brew you stand up at this Burton point
17:59
sit down at a certain point stand out
18:01
but the ayahuasca is so strong that
18:03
despite that despite the like real
18:06
process of it it’s still ayahuasca right
18:09
like they haven’t taken it and made it
18:11
diluted you know dirty yeah some my
18:14
friend is uh is a professional
18:16
snowboarder and he also likes to skate
18:18
and surf and he often talked about
18:20
snowboarding as what makes no boarding
18:22
special is I’m like surfing you go and
18:25
you wait for the waves sometimes you
18:26
don’t catch it sometimes you do but if
18:28
you catch the great way it’s the most
18:30
amazing thing it snowboarding you’re
18:31
guaranteed to get an experience yeah so
18:33
that’s how I think of like surfing like
18:35
meditation and then psychedelic is like
18:38
snowboarding you’re guaranteed to have
18:40
some you’re coming down I think we
18:42
rolling down the hill yeah you know you
18:44
might have your leg broken but you’re
18:45
coming down you’re not staying up there
18:47
yeah but meditation you might sit there
18:49
and nothing happens I’ll true yeah I’ve
18:52
been gravitating more towards like the
18:54
embodied meditative practices you know
18:56
like ecstatic dance or yoga or but do
19:01
you think it’s easier to do that now
19:02
that you had these other experiences and
19:04
you have Sherine work sure but it’s also
19:06
I’ve also led those practices like
19:08
breathwork ecstatic now and people
19:10
reliably get two really interesting
19:12
places like the mechanism of using your
19:15
body and music to create trance-like
19:17
body plus music plus dance to create
19:20
trance to create altered states of
19:22
cognition and brain wave patterns like
19:24
that’s proven that’s that’s been around
19:26
for forever so people can you can
19:29
actually use that to help guide your
19:31
meditation but certainly getting in
19:33
altered psychedelic states have then
19:36
informed everything else as far as like
19:37
what are the goals where am I trying to
19:39
go you know when I’m doing any of these
19:41
practices I’m just trying to get out of
19:43
it I’m gonna say the most cool thing of
19:45
today but I don’t care I’ll try and top
19:48
you let’s see what a challenge um my
19:51
friend has had now four babies or and
19:55
every time after getting the baby when
19:58
or his partners had a child together
20:01
with them he
20:03
out walking the forest that he sees
20:04
trolls there’s like you know a week
20:07
after having a baby the DMT is so high
20:10
naturally in his body he sees these
20:13
creatures on the forest whoa and like a
20:15
week after it doesn’t see them and first
20:18
time he was like what’s going on you
20:20
know and he happen again second baby and
20:22
he’s not even carrying the baby
20:23
obviously so yeah yeah not at that age
20:26
no huh so but it’s fascinating of like
20:29
like even that ecstatic dance and all
20:31
that stuff like such a compound like DMT
20:33
so how can we generate more of it on a
20:35
daily basis but right yeah it’s there’s
20:38
so many you know there’s so many
20:39
endogenous that’s one of the things
20:41
about DMT is it is an endogenous
20:43
compound and so you know hypothesis and
20:46
dream state and dying state and all
20:49
these states where you get these massive
20:50
DMT releases potentially explaining some
20:53
of the alien abduction stuff though
20:55
there might be fucking aliens so yeah I
20:57
don’t know who knows you know we’ll see
20:59
about that I want to talk to you a
21:00
little bit and shift courses about
21:03
because you’re also an entrepreneur got
21:05
a dope company with products that I use
21:07
and bunch of use I’m drinking them right
21:08
now combination of your reishi and your
21:11
chaga and your cordyceps mushrooms and I
21:15
mix them it’s one of those that yeah
21:17
those days I mean yeah and I mixed some
21:20
exogenous ketones and some of our MCT
21:23
oil in here yep and it’s fucking good
21:25
your MC tea is great with those yeah it
21:27
is so easy to travel with as well and
21:29
yep so you know you obviously had an
21:33
affinity and an understanding of the
21:35
medicinal power of mushrooms something
21:37
that probably you were familiar with and
21:38
then yeah also you know a general
21:41
understanding of business and then you
21:42
went about forming this brand you know
21:45
take us a little bit through that that
21:47
process cuz you know this is the classic
21:50
kind of entrepreneurs roadmap where find
21:54
an interesting thing that you know know
21:56
about and then apply all your business
21:57
skills and make a brand and build this
21:59
up yeah so I think there’s two faults of
22:02
that is one to think of it is you need
22:05
skills like I’m a 13 generation family
22:08
farmer my mom would who taught
22:10
physiology anatomy would take me and my
22:11
brother foraging and I went to and you
22:14
know environmental school
22:16
where we forage for things that my
22:18
great-great granddad started so there’s
22:20
all this lineage of knowledge so you
22:22
need that knowledge to create truly
22:24
great products understand what’s you
22:26
know – what’s not at the same time you
22:27
can today’s world you can learn that
22:29
like you don’t have to have lineage to
22:31
be in topic area expertise if you just
22:33
talk to the right people you know and
22:36
read the right things it’s helpful
22:37
though it is helpful it gives you an
22:39
advantage the second thing is like you
22:41
have to love something to go through the
22:42
tough times
22:43
before we start I told you a story about
22:45
my friend who used to buy your products
22:47
and way back and win and you were
22:48
personally emailing them is like hey the
22:50
ship is coming I’m getting it out you
22:52
know and there’s a lot of those early
22:54
days tough times especially if you don’t
22:55
like you know start with tons of like
22:57
venture funding or whatever and just put
23:00
a lot of heart to it you need that to
23:02
get through the tough times and
23:03
hopefully create something that will
23:04
outlast you you know and did you start
23:06
with venture funding no no oh yeah I we
23:09
didn’t like I would have not even known
23:11
how to God get any venture funding but I
23:13
think if I would have gone is they’re
23:14
like hey do you want to invest in us
23:15
drinking mushrooms yeah I mean with some
23:19
exceptions I don’t think a lot of people
23:20
would have gone that now might be a
23:22
different story
23:25
yeah consciousness is growing for sure
23:27
and so so those are two things is like I
23:31
had this lineage but I also had the
23:33
passion to go through the tough times
23:34
and and I wanted to create a product
23:36
that I enjoyed and I would buying like
23:39
mushroom extracts from these random
23:41
websites that you know who knew what was
23:43
in them and opening capsules into my
23:45
smoothies and I was like you need to
23:47
make this easier and even if I found a
23:49
great product either from the wild or
23:51
from another companies like I try to
23:53
give it to my friends and I’ve been
23:54
coaching like pro athletes and models
23:56
and whatever they were like that’s so
23:58
shady well I get high when it wasn’t I’m
24:00
sure can I like what about drug test if
24:02
I’m an athlete you know you’re familiar
24:04
with that is like they’re extra careful
24:06
about your own safety I was like what if
24:08
they fail a drug test or something about
24:10
that
24:10
so but those reasons I like hey you got
24:12
to make this more legit so it’s not like
24:14
I am the greatest mushroom expert who’s
24:17
ever lived that’s not the point we’re
24:18
both just standing in the soul nobody
24:20
chose famines yeah and even he’s not
24:23
he’s not the the guy of all time there’s
24:27
people that have dedicated their whole
24:29
life
24:30
single mushroom and there whoa yes deep
24:33
yeah – a single much yeah and specialize
24:37
in my college yeah exactly and and and
24:39
those people are more knowledgeable but
24:41
it’s not that knowledge alone will take
24:44
you have to find ways how you make it
24:46
more accessible so if if if the
24:48
information about functional mushrooms
24:50
or any truly healthy food it’s not
24:53
enough to educate them you have to make
24:54
them taste good and easy to use and all
24:57
that stuff and so that was a lot of the
25:00
journey like the first products we made
25:01
taste horrible you know is like just
25:04
figuring out or like make these super
25:06
super super bitter compounds into
25:08
something more palatable that was a
25:10
challenge then also messaging like how
25:12
do we explain something that it’s like
25:14
an adaptogen who by definition is
25:16
nonspecific yeah so technically if
25:18
somebody asks like why usually use
25:20
cordyceps what balances your body like
25:23
what is that going to mean so then you
25:25
have to go back to research and say it’s
25:27
like how does bounce body what are the
25:28
energies that it could say okay it’s
25:30
definitely like a performance so now you
25:32
put in performance but technically if
25:34
you have a very balanced body
25:35
you could have cordyceps at night it’s
25:37
not it’s I’m stimulating yeah but you
25:41
have to kind of like put it in a in an
25:43
occasion that people are familiar with
25:44
like not everybody has why you call it
25:47
like pick-me-up cordyceps yeah like
25:50
unfortunately most of the world doesn’t
25:53
have on their calendars blocked out a
25:54
mushroom tea time you know it’s not but
25:57
they have a coffee time mm-hmm
25:58
you know they have a workout smoothie
26:01
time so rather easier just incorporate
26:04
into those moments and try to make it
26:06
like more accessible and less garyun
26:08
yeah I think that’s what you’re doing is
26:10
you know I think a mistake a lot of
26:11
people make is you can assume that the
26:13
market is as passionate about your
26:15
product as you yeah you know that
26:17
they’re just gonna do all the research
26:18
and they’re gonna get super excited yeah
26:20
and I pathi sighs about all the places
26:22
no probably not you know you have their
26:25
own shit that they’re excited about
26:26
their own shit that they’re passionate
26:27
about yeah you got to make it easy and I
26:29
think that’s something that both you and
26:31
I have done so exactly and and then
26:33
there’s always the challenge of like how
26:35
do you show the love you’ve had like
26:38
they say that expert becomes an expert
26:40
by reading everything that they can read
26:42
and studying all dating
26:43
but they get paid to be an expert by
26:46
simplifying it into a one small thing so
26:49
if you read all this stuff about MCT and
26:51
your source and you looked at different
26:53
options and what’s the good quality
26:54
what’s the bad quality how do we work
26:56
this and and then you say here no this
26:59
is the jam this is what you need yeah
27:01
but it doesn’t come from like or this is
27:03
what I want to sell like I went through
27:04
all these other stuff or how the brain
27:06
it was like I don’t know how many
27:07
formulations you went through you know
27:10
like who you know Oh Bert’s yeah you
27:13
know like if you I’ve had it too much
27:14
and then I can’t sleep because I’m like
27:16
Jamie jittery fuck so what’s the right
27:19
dose and then if you take too much yeah
27:21
you can even have like a nicotinic
27:22
reaction which was some of the early
27:24
batches of alpha brain were so strong
27:26
like people would react as if they kept
27:28
a big wad of Copenhagen in their mouth
27:31
the first time they ever
27:32
you know I’d shooing tobacco yeah you
27:34
know you have a similar reaction like
27:35
you took two alpha brain no oh you know
27:39
like there goes the next two powers you
27:41
know what’s the craziest is the
27:42
intuition though like I think internally
27:45
we know what works but like you work on
27:47
the recipe on yourself and your friends
27:48
and you figure out this works I feel
27:50
there’s something here and then years
27:52
later you get scientific review that
27:55
this works like but it was intuition
27:57
like if we forget all the science is not
27:59
the truth it’s the search of truth it’s
28:01
like the pursuit of truth or the
28:03
validation of truth yeah correct and
28:05
we’re trying to get there but it’s not
28:07
the ultimate truth so sometimes like
28:09
intuition and tuning within and
28:11
listening to your body will have those
28:13
answers but sometimes it’s kind of hard
28:15
if you’re in this yeah science is a
28:17
limited body of research that currently
28:19
exists it’s not that if it’s not in the
28:21
science it’s bullshit and I think people
28:23
have that it’s if it’s not in science
28:25
could be bullshit yep or it could have
28:27
just not been studied well even the time
28:29
I worked with cordyceps mushroom it’s
28:31
been renamed three times and every time
28:33
they’re like this is it yeah and they’re
28:35
like four years later like joking I
28:38
don’t know
28:39
so like who knows yeah at the end of the
28:41
day the latter name the official name
28:43
could just keep changing you know yeah
28:44
what is it now
28:45
Stillson answer’s no so as quarter
28:49
subsidences senses means from China and
28:52
then he became a quarter subsidences and
28:54
that was like a different strain now
28:56
they figured out that
28:57
a totally different type of on the
29:01
sentences family but there now they’re
29:03
almost saying is that even that is not
29:05
the actual one there’s hundreds of
29:07
varieties of it we use one meal Ataris
29:10
which is not and that has an aunt that
29:12
has an aunt yes symbiotic so yes so
29:15
that’s the fruiting body versus most of
29:17
the sin density products have mycelium
29:19
the products but at the end of the day
29:22
even the strains like I get Peruvian
29:24
cordyceps not a lot of people know that
29:26
there is in but it grows in high
29:28
altitudes all over so so we’re just
29:31
discovering so like who knows but you
29:32
have to kind of apply to FDA so you have
29:34
to kind of say what it is based on the
29:36
current knowledge so we say cordyceps
29:37
militar is mmm so because based on the
29:39
current knowledge that it is what it is
29:41
but what we know is that it works yeah
29:43
no doubt and the research is continually
29:45
get there is no it’s it’s not one or two
29:47
papers like a thousand yeah yeah and
29:49
that’s that’s always good we just we’re
29:51
about to publish we release but we’re
29:53
about to publish in a peer-reviewed
29:55
journal some of the results on our
29:56
cordyceps base formula it’s room to
29:58
export so we’re able to show
29:59
improvements in high-intensity interval
30:01
training variety of different it’s also
30:03
to stack like you know it’s synergies no
30:06
down down other adaptogens in there yeah
30:08
you know some different things that we
30:09
put into vitamin B vitamins and things
30:12
to all kind of harness this together and
30:14
that’s another thing that you guys do
30:15
that’s cool is I really like the the
30:17
blends that you came up with where
30:18
you’re getting a variety these mushrooms
30:21
and then putting them in blends so it’s
30:22
even easier than opening up the
30:24
individual packets it’s like all right I
30:26
want the seven Nostrum blend or the five
30:28
mushroom blends or the Viking superfoods
30:30
I use that one in my berry smoothies is
30:32
a little tart yeah I mean look I at the
30:34
end of day I would just want to sell
30:35
everybody like a two pound bag of
30:37
mushroom extract but it they’re not
30:39
gonna use it cuz that compliance is
30:41
everything if it’s not made easy and
30:43
combined in these synergistic recipes
30:45
most people don’t know how to use them
30:47
because like really one plus one is five
30:49
if you combine the right stuff like why
30:52
don’t we see B vitamins all this kind of
30:54
stuff adaptogens mmm-hmm
30:55
now let me see you know if this
30:58
understanding correlates with your
30:59
understanding I was working with in our
31:01
shrimp tech immune formula we have a
31:03
variety of different mushrooms different
31:05
market blend from you know chaga eraseed
31:08
alliance been a lot of the ones that you
31:09
produce and when i was talking to the
31:10
head
31:11
ecologist who is trying to explain this
31:13
in layman’s terms he was saying that the
31:14
immune benefits partly that you receive
31:16
other chaga has some other in particular
31:19
unique you immune benefits is largely
31:22
derived from some activity of the immune
31:24
system in correspondence with the beta
31:25
glucans in the mushrooms in which the
31:28
body recognizes those as foreign
31:30
entities and then starts to prepare
31:32
their innate immune system response and
31:35
because it’s actually not a pathogenic
31:38
molecule it’s these beta glucans have no
31:40
you know no other harmful effect on the
31:43
body you end up generating more immune
31:46
cells that can be repurposed for other
31:47
immune challenges so it’s like kind of
31:49
keeping your standing army more ready
31:52
and able to sell to address that’s
31:53
totally true so first on a high level
31:56
and then to the specific of mushrooms
31:58
that’s it like it’s almost like a
31:59
hormetic stressor the same way as
32:01
turmeric it causes or a workout workout
32:04
will temporarily make you weaker you
32:07
know and but it doesn’t cause any unless
32:10
you injure yourself or you have some
32:11
crazy other stuff happen you’re not
32:13
gonna hurt you and you can recover
32:15
fairly quickly and then you hit a new
32:17
level so in this case they are like a
32:19
boot camp for the natural killer cells
32:21
and cytokines and they activate them or
32:23
or more specifically modulate that MIMO
32:26
no modulation for the food for the own
32:28
immune system so same way as almost all
32:31
the best things they don’t heal anything
32:32
directly they just help give the body
32:35
the tools to be stronger and basically
32:38
everybody’s gonna get this is a little
32:40
aggressive statement but everybody’s
32:41
gonna get cancer every day yeah but some
32:44
of you will have basically immune system
32:46
can fight it and destroy it and cancer
32:49
here being like a foreign object in your
32:50
body foreign you know cell that does an
32:52
intruder or pathogen or whatever and so
32:56
just having it that activity there is so
32:58
important and say I’ll do immune is the
32:59
opposite if your body’s confused it’s
33:02
too active and when it comes to
33:03
mushrooms the top mushrooms that you
33:05
mentioned like cordyceps chaga reishi
33:07
lion’s mane I called him like the Ninja
33:10
Turtles you know they are ninjas and
33:12
Turtles means they’re all mushrooms that
33:13
color them and yeah yeah they’d all be
33:16
gone there’s purple need to
33:20
no that’s Donatello the purple one the
33:23
purple yeah so basically they’re all
33:26
ninjas and Turtles they’re all mushrooms
33:28
that help with the immune system and gut
33:29
health they’re amazing for the gut the
33:31
pole beat the glucans get absorbed in
33:32
the Collin and there’s like in the last
33:34
few years there’s an incredible amount
33:35
of research calling for calling yeah
33:37
sorry yeah like I said English not the
33:40
first or the second language and that
33:43
helps the gut biome so there’s tons of
33:44
research now coming out with medicinal
33:46
mushrooms and they use for the gut and
33:48
but what they also do have this special
33:51
weapon and so like cordyceps is clearly
33:53
this sports performance and lion’s mane
33:56
it’s brain function and by the way that
33:58
could be used with with metric mushrooms
34:00
as well combined to create a stack there
34:02
and stuff like that but point being is
34:05
that they’re all similar in the way that
34:07
they help with the immune system and got
34:08
health and yeah and you’re talking about
34:11
the secret weapon you’re talking about
34:12
particular other compounds besides the
34:14
beta currents that might be fun and
34:15
they’re like they’ve you know some
34:17
strains of cordyceps have adenosine in
34:19
them yes gonna help with ATP production
34:21
so that would be an example that you
34:22
cannot find that in other compounds or
34:24
they would have exceptionally high
34:26
amounts like chaga would have s OD which
34:28
is a type of a superoxide dismutase
34:29
which is a specific type of very strong
34:31
anti oxidant and that can help with
34:34
let’s say you know lower inflammation or
34:36
other things like that yeah and one of
34:38
the you know one of the things I talk
34:40
about in my book you know in the in the
34:41
lunch chapter I kind of spread out the
34:43
nutrition philosophy out throughout the
34:45
main eating portions of the day it’s
34:48
about eating weird foods yeah because
34:50
when you have a really varied diet then
34:53
you’re getting all of these weird you
34:55
know super nutrients that you wouldn’t
34:57
normally get so foraged mushrooms these
34:59
exotic mushrooms you may not know what
35:01
it is but when you go deep in the
35:02
products produce section you can pretty
35:04
much assure yourself that in most cases
35:07
and even in the even in the meat section
35:09
if you’re eating organ meats or yeah
35:11
different shellfish or you know be aware
35:13
of ng yes see veggies there’s gonna be
35:16
little super nutrients that you probably
35:18
don’t even know about but you could
35:20
research if you’d if you brought up the
35:21
google there but just the idea of
35:23
varying our diet because the average
35:25
person eats like almost the same fucking
35:28
10 foods yeah like their whole life this
35:31
is something we can agree on with almost
35:33
everybody in nutrition
35:34
health is like we battled that should
35:35
you eat plant-based or meat or should
35:38
you be high fat low fat this is the
35:39
oldest debate on internet that people
35:41
love to go back and forth and but we
35:43
agree that we should have diversity and
35:45
diet and the studies showing get
35:47
benefits the gut health back yes immune
35:49
have been promised indigenous people
35:51
when they nibbled and all the stuff how
35:53
many different species and DNA and
35:55
aren’t like this knowledge is
35:56
intelligence of different plans they
35:58
absorb throughout the year compared to
36:00
what we have now it’s kind of incredible
36:01
and I believe that some of these
36:05
mushrooms like functional mushrooms like
36:07
cordyceps they remind you of the
36:08
intelligence of of all fungi you know
36:11
and there’s again little whoo but they
36:13
have this knowledge and you have this
36:14
small amount and they you tap into this
36:16
intelligence that is sometimes yet kind
36:19
of hard to define we can talk about B
36:21
vitamins and D vitamins and you know
36:23
beat the clue guns but I believe they
36:26
all have this everyday magic in them
36:28
that you can yet describe in words but
36:31
they remind you of this intelligence of
36:33
this planet there are funny mushrooms
36:35
are just a funny organism yeah they are
36:38
it’s just a very you’re half a mushroom
36:40
I’m a half a mushroom yeah yeah because
36:42
of all the fungus that we have in our
36:43
body yeah and where we share half of our
36:46
DNA with them that’s why
36:47
fungal medicine is so so by available
36:51
because we share so much of our DNA with
36:52
them yeah I think I’ve gone full
36:54
mushroom I’ve got 100% mushroom on
36:58
occasion not that I recommend going on
37:00
it was good that I didn’t keep a shred
37:02
of humanity there yeah to help navigate
37:03
the system but certainly clearly you
37:07
know can be massive allies for us
37:09
whether you’re talking about the
37:10
psilocybin mushrooms in the right satin
37:12
setting or whether you’re talking about
37:13
these medicinal mushrooms or if you’re
37:15
just talking about delicious fucking
37:17
shiitake mushroom yeah cuz these are
37:19
amazing butter and sea salt grass-fed
37:22
butter and sea salt like yeah for sure
37:25
you know they’re just kind of I think
37:28
they’re finally getting their moment of
37:29
recognition it really seems like you
37:32
know they’ve hopefully well you know
37:34
even talking to Whole Foods cuz we’re
37:35
getting a lot of our line into Whole
37:37
Foods and they’re looking at you know
37:39
what the biggest categories are and
37:40
they’re like medicinal mushrooms so
37:42
right now and we were actually trying to
37:44
we’re actually trying to partner with
37:46
you guys yeah
37:47
but there but you’re like merchandise in
37:49
a different section where the mold
37:50
sections actually yeah so there was
37:52
there some like some shit we’re gonna
37:54
make some MCT you know elixir shakes
37:57
American diced in the wrong category we
37:59
got we got to cut through the bullshit
38:00
yeah let’s just give it to the people we
38:02
are people one you know yeah the people
38:04
want people want people want fucking mzt
38:06
Oh mushroom Alex and if they don’t know
38:08
yet they will they will we’ll make sure
38:11
they know yeah it makes the difference I
38:12
think it’s one of those products that I
38:13
tried it and you know somebody just
38:15
handed me a packet and it was the
38:18
mushroom coffee yeah and I think it was
38:20
maybe Ben Greenfield it gave me the
38:21
first one I don’t know who was and you
38:23
know you kind of vibe with it and
38:25
especially if you understand the
38:26
mushroom story then it’s like something
38:29
that you’d start to adapt into your into
38:31
your daily regimen lines you it’s almost
38:33
a homeopathic dosage yeah yeah for sure
38:36
for sure well what else brother anything
38:40
else on your mind you want to share with
38:41
people of the world no I think I guess
38:44
the mission I’m on is just the mushroom
38:46
mission you know reminding people that
38:48
hey mushrooms are not necessarily better
38:50
than other food groups or that they’re
38:51
not a cure-all that and not all
38:53
mushrooms are good for you or not yeah
38:55
don’t go picking up and stuff in your
38:57
grass yeah and even if you get the right
38:59
mushroom there’s the right time in place
39:00
for it but what I’m saying is that
39:02
they’re quite overlooked and you should
39:04
give them an opportunity and if nothing
39:05
else you know read about them and you
39:07
know they they are linked with the
39:09
environment they’re linked with how
39:11
plants collect water they’re linked with
39:13
the knowledge of of this earth and this
39:15
is not one thing this is literally like
39:17
if we go to particle physics and we
39:19
start talking about energies and all
39:21
that stuff that’s actually like grounded
39:23
on science and if you start looking at
39:24
mushrooms you’re gonna realize that a
39:26
lot of biology for example is based on
39:27
fungi and and learning from that so
39:30
that’s just the only thing I want to say
39:31
is like you know give mushrooms a chance
39:33
pace mushrooms a chance and check out
39:35
his book yeah this looks cool you got a
39:38
bunch of cool recipes in here too
39:40
yeah different like elixirs and foods so
39:43
go buy shrimp export and make quarter
39:45
sex on the day hahaha
39:46
for sure buy some more cinematic have
39:49
both both available sometimes the pills
39:51
are helpful you don’t have to mix
39:52
anything up sometimes you can take the
39:54
mushroom straight but we’re both huge
39:55
fans of this enoki mushroom fries they
39:58
look so good so if you have mushrooms by
40:00
the way if you buy
40:01
don’t eat raw mushrooms by utilize heat
40:04
and lipids so fats like you said
40:05
sauteing butter so that’s how you unlock
40:07
their health benefits and their power
40:09
and the flavor gets better so use plenty
40:11
of fats and heat if it’s soup or you
40:14
saute them or you put them in the oven
40:16
but just make sure there’s fats and heat
40:18
applied to them yeah that makes sense
40:20
I can’t wait to try and convince Kyle
40:22
Kingsbury to take a big dose of Amanita
40:29
Sami people do a trip and we’ll see the
40:33
Nordic lights stay blue that sounds
40:36
pretty good the rain the rain piss yeah
40:39
Huskies all that stuff I’m into it
40:42
yeah well thanks for stopping by bro
40:43
thanks it’s been great everybody check
40:46
out his book forcing manic is the
40:48
company and where can people find you on
40:50
socials I am Tarot ter Oh boom he is
40:54
you’re on your hair so everybody peace
Where to find everyone

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